Application Section - feedback

[yume]

Hi guys -

I see you don't use it anymore, but a couple years ago I wrote the recruitment center/application software that you used to use on this site.

Sometime over the next couple months I plan on doing an upgrade to it and so I'd be interested to hear what you thought of it (feel free to bash it as long as it's constructive).

Additionally, if you have any specific feature requests or bug reports, please fill out a ticket (it's painless) at: http://galenmaly.net:8080/project/newticket

Thanks!
-Yume (Galen)

[Tatsuo]

Two of the major reasons we stopped using it,

1. Too many people would only post private comments. This lead to applicants getting little to no feed back and not even knowing if their app had been looked at.

2. Not many guild members were going in to the app section and reading apps, people seem to read apps more if the app is in thread form.

There were a few other reasons I think but I cannot remember.

[Syrio]

Hey,

Many apologies for never giving you the vBulletin stuff for it. Like everything else I promise to do I end up getting busy and forgetting ten times. Same with fraps stuff from nigma... heh

I can give you some feedback as well but Tatsuo hit on I think the main thing: because it is segregated from the forums, we had about 25% of the forum users actually looking at it.

My biggest suggestion would be to create plugins for software like vB or phpbb or even some other CMS systems like Drupal that guilds are now using, where users get new comment/post/app notifications alongside their normal forum traffic.

Another useful feature might be a one button new apps/new comments thing like many forums have, or even a digest feature on a cron cycle that delivers updates via PM or email. That is all off of the top of my head though, I'll put some more thought into it later.

You still playing anywhere?

[Protico]

You still playing anywhere?

If he isn't playing but is still updating guild application tools I am a bit concerned.

[Lemmiwinks]

stupid programmers and their dumb programming

wtf is wrong with them

[Jalba]

He was on his mage (still 70) in Dalaran asking me about the application stuff before the raid today.

[Lemmiwinks]

pros don't level past 70 grats losers

[yume]

1. Too many people would only post private comments. This lead to applicants getting little to no feed back and not even knowing if their app had been looked at.
Yeah this definitely is a problem, but it seems like a social one. I could add in a setting where an admin could make it so you can only post public comments I guess.

2. Not many guild members were going in to the app section and reading apps, people seem to read apps more if the app is in thread form.
My biggest suggestion would be to create plugins for software like vB or phpbb or even some other CMS systems like Drupal that guilds are now using, where users get new comment/post/app notifications alongside their normal forum traffic.
That's definitely something to look into. Maybe the system could create an application forum in which the threads would link directly to the application... or something
Another useful feature might be a one button new apps/new comments thing like many forums have, or even a digest feature on a cron cycle that delivers updates via PM or email.
Hmm, do shared webhosts even support cron? But I see your point - especially since comments on an app don't bump it to the top so comments on not recent applications can go un-noticed.

You still playing anywhere?
Yeah I play on my horde pally on gnomeregan with irl friends. Our 'guild' uses a much more advanced version of the application software: http://www.fightsauce.com/apply.php

In any case, thanks for the feedback

[Syrio]

Hmm, do shared webhosts even support cron? But I see your point - especially since comments on an app don't bump it to the top so comments on not recent applications can go un-noticed.

Probably not, but to remedy that I usually use a "poor man's cron" whenever I make anything that could be deployed anywhere I don't have control of (vBulletin has adopted this as well). i.e. keep some datastore table in the database that has two fields, a key and some data. Add rows to control various things, and then the data field can be a serialized array or object, or just an integer, or a date, or whatever.

So in that case on any page load it just fetches various keys in a single query, one of which can be like a "last run" date, and if it passes X hour (whenever you want to schedule it) and it hasn't run yet, use PHP's register_shutdown_function() to "schedule" that task.

There are probably other or better ways but that's mine. haha

For the social problem... could also maybe just make all comments on apps "moderated" and then rely on an admin or app officer to choose whether they should be public or private. More work for some admin but better control over what the app sees.

[yume]

Probably not, but to remedy that I usually use a "poor man's cron" whenever I make anything that could be deployed anywhere I don't have control of (vBulletin has adopted this as well). i.e. keep some datastore table in the database that has two fields, a key and some data. Add rows to control various things, and then the data field can be a serialized array or object, or just an integer, or a date, or whatever.

So in that case on any page load it just fetches various keys in a single query, one of which can be like a "last run" date, and if it passes X hour (whenever you want to schedule it) and it hasn't run yet, use PHP's register_shutdown_function() to "schedule" that task.

There are probably other or better ways but that's mine. haha
Yeah, phpbb3 actually uses an image at the bottom of every page that loads a php script to run those sorts of things... I wonder why it does that instead of using the register_shutdown_function (which I didn't know existed, I havent had to do pseudo crons before)

For the social problem... could also maybe just make all comments on apps "moderated" and then rely on an admin or app officer to choose whether they should be public or private. More work for some admin but better control over what the app sees.
Currently admins can edit posts and make them public/private but the interface is bad and I guess guild members should be aware that their post could be made public or private, so what you described would definitely be a good mode to add (for those who chose to use it that way)

[Protico]

Yeah I play on my horde pally on gnomeregan with irl friends. Our 'guild' uses a much more advanced version of the application software: http://www.fightsauce.com/apply.php

In any case, thanks for the feedback

Thank you for your interest in <Fightsauce>.
Your application has been ACCEPTED.
Reason:You lied on your application.

Woot, it has been fun guys, but I got accepted to a new guild, I'm out!

[meer]

With a system like the one you made, it does make it easier for the guild and officers viewing the applicants much much easier. It's actually too good to the point where it backfires sorta.

I'm not really great at expressing my thoughts in words so I will try my best. Remember back in school where something you did (report, project) where points were given for overall presentation or quality. Well with a system like the above it has given everyone that aspect for free. I'm sure there are still ways to fuck up the application when someone holds your hand through every question and comment, but that's a different issue.

Basically here are some pros for using a system like the one we use now. Some of these pros are more viable and apply more to our system vs the one you made, some are viable for both. I'm not going to point out and say your system sucks, because its a great system but it just doesn't really fit our needs.

-the application is accessible by more people (some people really are lazy to view applications)

-guild's at our tier level aren't private businesses where every single thing an applicant does is completely private (no one else can see who apps to us).

- lets US know more about the applicant by looking at how he presents his application before we even contact him

-let's US know who really spent the time to make sure the application doesn't look like dogshit as opposed to someone who wants to just fills blanks as fast as possible to find something to raid for a month or two and wander off (like Torq, Cydella, Kaffy etc) .

-It's easier to see who can follow very simple directions when making their applications. (I personally read the rules and info about a guild about 2-3 times to make sure I fully understand what i'm getting into before I even start the application. I even let it soak for a few days and see if feel the same way about the guild. I want to see a lot more people do this)


I realize most of the stuff I listed negates the whole backbone of you system entirely, but I think certain things need to be more organized and certain things (guild applications) need to have a bit more freedom.


the following has nothing to do with the app system

Something I have been trying to tell Syrio is to make the applications public. I think we ought to know as MUCH INFO as possible on someone before we take them in. Good or bad. WE can decide which comments to ignore and which ones to factor in.

The whole "I don't care what you did in the past, who you were, who you became but only who you are now as long as you can raid" deal is kinda weak for choosing core raiders.

[Snow]

pros don't level past 70 grats losers

qft

[Snow]

Thank you for your interest in <Fightsauce>.
Your application has been ACCEPTED.
Reason:You lied on your application.

Woot, it has been fun guys, but I got accepted to a new guild, I'm out!


Thank you for your interest in <Fightsauce>.

Your application has been DENIED.

Reason:You are not awesome enough.

Apparently a level 69 warrior named ILoveYume isnt awesome enough for Fightsauce standards!

[Protico]

Apparently a level 69 warrior named ILoveYume isnt awesome enough for Fightsauce standards!

Well the only advice I can give those of you not awesome enough for Fightsauce is to keep following your dreams and one day you might see me on TV or something.

[Ryor]

Well the only advice I can give those of you not awesome enough for Fightsauce is to keep following your dreams and one day you might see me on TV or something.

cops is still on?