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Corrosion

01-27-2009, 05:07 PM

At the suggestion of some other concerned players i have decided to start a DK discussion thread.
This first part is just general Information on the Death Knight Class and the Dual Wield Spec that were currently using

DK Spells Refered to in this Post
IT = Icy Touch consumes 1 Frost Rune
PS = Plague Strike consumes 1 Unholy Rune
BS = Blood Strike consumes 1 Blood Rune
HB = Howling Blast consumes 1 Unholy, 1 Frost 5sec CD
Dump = Dumping Runic Power e.g. Deathcoil (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49895), Frost Strike (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=55268)(Talented), Gargoyle (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49206)(Talented) or Howling Blast(Rime (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=59057) Procs)
[Using a Rune gives you Runic Power, the rune then goes on Cool Down]

Melee Hit

Versus a Raid Boss your special attacks all have a 8% chance to miss. This is for DW (dual wield) and 2H (two handed) DK's.

* 32.79 Hit Rating is equal to 1% Melee Hit
* 262.32 Hit Rating is equal to 8% Melee Hit (this is the Melee Hit cap)
* DW imposes a hit penalty, requiring 23.6% Melee Hit to reach the Melee Hit cap with white attacks
* DW still only has a 8% Melee Hit cap for special attacks

Spell Hit

* 26.23 Hit Rating is equal to 1% Spell Hit
* 445.91 Hit Rating is equal to 17% Spell Hit (this is the Spell Hit cap)
* Improved Faerie Fire (Balance Druid debuff) or Misery (Shadow Priest debuff) increases your spell hit by 3%, or 78.69 Hit Rating.
* Virulence + Misery = 6% spell hit, or 157.38 Hit Rating

Automatic Hit Bonuses
1% From Draenie Racial (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=28878), 3% From Virulence (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49568)

Expertise
* 1 Expertise Skill reduces the chance a target will dodge/parry your attacks by 0.25%
* 8.2 Expertise Rating is equal to 1 Expertise Skill
* 4 Expertise Skill reduces the chance a target will dodge/parry your attacks by 1%
* 32.79 Expertise Rating is equal 4 Expertise Skill
* 26 Expertise Skill is the Expertise Cap

Glyphs & Sigils
-Major-
Glyph of the Ghoul (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43549) - No Cost on Summoning Ghouls Very Useful
Glyph of Icy Touch (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43546) - More Runic Power for a slight damage loss
Glyph of Blood Strike (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43826) The deal here is that the Frostfire (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47610) debuff applies to bosses, even though they don’t run slower.
Which means the BS Glyph works, and you get the bonus +20% to all of your BS and HS on any boss if there is one Frostfire spec’d mage in your raid.
And as luck would have it, Frosfire spec is the highest raid dps spec available for mages!!

-Minor-
Glyph of Pestilence (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43672)
Glyph of Raise Dead (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43673)
Glyph of Horn of Winter (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43544)

-Sigil-
Sigil of the Frozen Conscience (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40822) - This is the Newly Added Grizzly Hills Venture Coin Sigil!!!
must get... gotta have...
Sigil of the Dark Raider (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39208) - Starter Sigil Decent but not great...
Sigil of Haunted Dreams (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40715) - Was good up until the last patch time for an upgrade...

Specs
The Current "Highest" DPS Spec is 6000+
0/33/38 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jZG0ex0xdRhoZf0hhxckxcq0bo)

Rotations (I Use the First)
IT > PS > HB > BS > BS [Dump] IT > PS > HB > IT > IT
or
IT > PS > BS > BS > HB [Dump] IT > PS > IT > IT > HB

Death Rune
The Reason the Second Part of each rotation changes is the Conversion of Blood Runes into Death Runes via Reaping. (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=56835)
A Death Rune is like a wild card and can be used as Any Rune You cast while its available.
In this case Icy Touch is Used to Consume the Death Rune reverting it back to a Blood Rune.

Gargoyle

This lil guy benefits from your AP at the time of casting and also can gain buffs once cast. Why is this relevant? If you have Mirror of Truth, Rune of the Fallen Crusader, or some other item that can USE/PROC any kind of AP gain then you want to save your Gargoyle summon for when that happens. You also need to coordinate with the Shaman in the raid to set a certain % of health to use Heroism, and to call out a 5 second warning before casting it in Vent.

Typically Raid Leaders will call for Heroism to be thrown down at 35% (+/-) depending on the raid’s dps capacity. Far too many class have relevant abilities that do bonus damage below 35% or 20% health. So Heroism is typicallys called for between 35-50% health on a boss depending on how much dps you can do. On a few encounters it is called for at 90% in order to burn a boss down before he can unleash certain abilities, etc…

When you know roughly when the Heroism will be called for, prepare for it. For about 20 seconds before the Heroism call, watch for AP procs and then fire it off. You can even call in Vent/TS at that point that the Shaman can fire Heroism off when they are ready so long as there are no other DK’s who need to get a Gargoyle out as well. Doing this will cause a massive damage spike to your Gargoyle. I’ve seen him do 15% of my total damage on a boss before.

[Ive been using him right off the bat perhaps i should be waiting for a better time...]

With that said and done you should have a general understanding of the Death Knight Class so onward to discussion on turning down the suck coming from our DK DPS...

According to Tatsuo I needed to Compare myself to some other Death Knights using similar specs on WoWMeters (http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/dkt/6/0)
Blood Siphon (http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/detail/37633394#damageout)
vs
Talona (http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/detail/37826098#damageout)
Everthing seems to be in order...

Any Positive input is much appreciated

Corrosion

01-27-2009, 06:24 PM

Im thinking i just need to get Expertise Capped and a few weapon/equip upgrades and i should improve otherwise idk
Ive tweaked the spec a little bit without losing any key talents it may allow for a slight change in Rotation
by picking up Epidemic (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49562) my diseases can stay on longer allowing me to use less plague strikes i notice some of the higher DPS DKs have chosen to pick it up
This may alllow for more Howling Blasts cooldown permitting....

Corrosion

04-29-2009, 05:07 PM

--Update--

*New Specs*

------Blood------

DRW 51/2/18 (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=2305021530003303201223101351020000000 0000000000000000000230230302001200000000000000000&glyph=061008060504&version=9767)

UB 50/0/21 (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=2305021530003303201223101351020000000 0000000000000000000230230302001200000000000000000&glyph=061008060504&version=9767)

------------------

Single Target Rotation:

DS - IT - PS - HS - HS - DCx2

HSx2 - DS - HSx2 - DCx2

AoE Rotation - 5+ mobs:

DnD - IT - PS - Pest - DC

BB - DS - DS - BB - DCx2

AoE Rotation - 2 to 4 mobs:

IT - PS - Pest - HS - DS - DC

DS - HSx4 - DCx2

------Frost------

(Blood) 17/51/3 (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=2305020500000000000000000000320050503 5200311230005101351030000000000000000000000000000&glyph=131827060504&version=9767#)

(Unholy) 3/51/7 (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0300000000000000000000000000320050503 5200311230005101351230200305000200000000000000000&glyph=131827060504&version=9767)

------------------

Single Target Rotation

HB - OB - BS - BS - FSx2

OBx3 - FSx3

AoE Rotation

DnD - HB - BB - FSx2

BB - OB - BB - HB - FSx3

------Unholy------

Tier 7 12/0/59 (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=2305020000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000230200335003215203150203133151&glyph=082227060504&version=9767)

Tier 8 0/10/61 (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0000000000000000000000000000320050000 0000000000000000000230220335003215203150203133151&glyph=082227060504&version=9767)

------------------

Single Target Rotation:

IT - PS - BS - BS - SS - UB

SS x3 - DCx3

AoE Rotation:

DnD - IT - PS - Pest - UB

BB - SS - SS - BB- DCx2

Corrosion

06-09-2009, 06:53 PM

Best In Slot Gearing (http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t55505-optimal_gearing_bis_thread/)

Vox

08-07-2009, 05:26 PM

Patch 3.2 Updates:

Blood
Cookie Cutter: 51/0/20 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jfVMVh0Isfof0stZfzhhxc)
Presence: Blood
Sigil: Vengefull Heart / Awareness

Rotation:
IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-Dump
DS HS HS HS HS-Dump
or
IT-PS-DS-HS-HS-Dump
HS-HS-HS-HS-DS-Dump

Glyphs
Major:
Dancing Rune Weapon
Death Strike
Dark Death

Minor:
Horn
Ghoul
Pestilence

Stat Priorities:
DPS of Weapon
Strength
Armor Pen.
Hit
Expertise
Crit
Haste
Agility
Attack Power
Armor

------------------------------------------------------

Frost
Dual Wield Cookie Cutter: 0/53/18 (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0000000000000000000000000000320053503 52003012300033001351230200305003000000000000000000 0&glyph=171318000000&version=10192)
Presence: Blood
Sigil: Awareness

Rotation:
IT-PS-OB-BS-BS-Dump
OB-OB-OB-Dump

Priority Rotation (most important at the top):
- Frost Fever
- Blood Plague
- Killing Machine + Rime
- Obliterate
- Blood Strike
- Frost Strike

Glyphs:
Frost Strike
Icy Touch
Obliterate

Minor:
Horn
Ghoul
Pestilence

DPS of Weapon
Strength
Crit
Armor Pen.
Hit
Expertise
Haste
Agility
Attack Power

Dual Wield Frost Strike Machine Gun - 0/53/18 (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=0000000000000000000000000000320053503 52003012300033001351230200305003000000000000000000 0&glyph=171318000000&version=10192)
Presence: Unholy
Sigil: Vengefull Heart

Differences between this spec and the cookie cutter are:
-Presence
-Prioritization on KM w/ FS
-Sigil

Rotation:
IT-PS-OB-BS-BS-Dump
OB-OB-OB-Dump

Priority Rotation (most important at the top):
- Frost Fever
- Blood Plague
- Killing Machine + Frost Strike
- Rime
- Obliterate
- Blood Strike
- Frost Strike

Glyphs:
Frost Strike
Icy Touch
Obliterate

Minor:
Horn
Ghoul
Pestilence

DPS of Weapon
Strength
Crit
Armor Pen.
Hit
Expertise
Haste
Agility
Attack Power

**Benefits most from white swings considering the 15% Attack speed bonus = higher KM proc rate over the Blood Presence Build. Being in UA also gives the option of an additional FS before diseases drop**
------------------------------------------------------

Unholy
To be continued...

Vox

08-25-2009, 06:55 PM

Dual Wield DPS for Dummies -

The last dual wield build (32/39) was based off of the Fast high DPS weapons. Keeping in mind that Fast weapon speeds =

1) High KM Procs
2) BCB Procs
3) Necrosis Procs

Essentially, the faster you're hitting the More KM Procs, the Higher chance of BcB Procs and Necrosis Procs.

====

The current dual wield spec, is based off of Obliterate. In this case both weapons would be Slow. Main reason is, The higher both top ends the higher OBL Hits, Since ToT works by combining the weapon damage on both weapons.

The higher both top ends, the higher Obl hits.

In order for a fast weapon to come anywhere close to a 2.6 or 2.7 it would have to be 62.6 dps more then the slow weapon.

http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t64830-dw_builds_3_2_revenge_offhand/p48/#post1346541

http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t64830-dw_builds_3_2_revenge_offhand/

Vox

Vox

08-26-2009, 02:54 PM

Are none of those three PPM mechanics? Because everyone knows that faster attack speed means FEWER procs for PPM mechanics.

PPM stays constant while hasted. % chance to hit goes down, however the rate of hits is increased, thus meaning PPM stays constant.

Since necrosis is based solely on white hits. It did not have a GCD. It was an additional set of damage added onto a white hit. So as long as your hitting, damage is being delt.

KM has a tooltip function thats not recorded in the tooltip. KM has a higher chance to proc on slower weapons now. Back then it was the opposite. This was meant to give 2h frost a lead over Dual Wield.

Does that answer your question?

Corrosion

12-08-2009, 04:12 AM

Havent updated but heres what 3.3 will bring

Unholy
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jfVMVZZfMbI0cdg0ux0uIqo:LsbMmV

Single Target
IT – PS – BS – BS – SS – DC – HoW
SS – DC – SS – SS – DC – (DC)

Multi Target
IT – PS – Pestilence – DnD – DC – HoW
SS – BS – BB – SS – DC – DC
SS – Pestilence – DnD – DC – HoW

Florun

01-28-2010, 01:28 PM

So lately I've been getting a lot of questions from random DK's around the server asking about when to Respec to a Reaping unholy build, when to ditch the 4pct9 and go to using multiple pieces to T10, and overall just questions about DK's + ICC. I thought I'd post a little bit here for people's alts (maybe mains too, looking at you DK's running with your reaping specs). I'll just briefly go over what I do in order to determine when I'll be able to swap to a reaping spec, as seen here http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jfVMMZZfM0Ixcdg0ux0uIqo:LsbMmV. Currently, I'm using http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jfVMVZZfM0Ixcdg0zx0uIqo:LsbMmV, and I'll continue to use it until I can make the numbers work for a reaping spec.

ROTATIONS:

REAPING BUILD : PS – IT – BS – BS – SS – DC – HoW
SS – DC – SS – SS – DC – (DC)

NON REAPING BUILD: PS – IT – BS – SS – BS – DC – HoW
SS – BS – SS – BS – DC – DC– (DC)

You can see the reaping build gets an additional SS per rotation instead of BSx2

Probably about now, you're saying to yourself, but Florun, when do these magical numbers occur that represent when to switch? Well, that's a tricky question to answer, and there's been little success among the DK community finding a "break point" for when your gear is good enough to go to a reaping build. Now, a lot of you are saying, "but wait, EJ's first page says that once you get 2 piece T10 then you should go to a reaping build!!!!!1!". Well, if you actually read the thread instead of just the first post, you'd realize it's repeated about 300 times that you need to run sims to find whether it is actually a net gain for you to swap to a reaping build. When I say sims, I mean run either Kahorie's DK simulator, http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t50274-kahories_dk_simulator_1_2_a/, or any of the other suggested simulators, such as Team Robot's sim. I personally prefer Kahorie's, as it is what I've used since it's creation.

So that's it, plug your shit in to the simulator of choice, run it with 4piece t9 + the stats you'd have wearing it + a non reaping spec / rotation, then do the same with a 2piecet10 (4) + the stats + a reaping spec / rotation, and see what gives you better numbers. That's it.

Florun

01-28-2010, 04:35 PM

Bumping this because farmer thought it would be funny that no one would read this.

Corrosion

01-31-2010, 01:12 AM

Maybe Im not using this thing right but Its telling me If i respecced to a nonreaping build i would lose alot of DPS

Im new to this thing and Its kinda late so I may be missing some steps...
also Does it not calculate Necrosis im not showing it in any parses...

Florun

01-31-2010, 11:49 AM

More than likely you're not spec'd into necrosis in the simulator. And it's quite possible that at your gear level reaping has in fact won out at this point. If you have any questions about the simulator let me know in game, I'm happy to help with it.

dirtybird410

02-04-2010, 08:15 PM

Munt said the DK's in this guild were a wealth of knowledge on DPS so I would like to ask a few questions if you have time.

Currently, (and unfortunately), my guild lacks a consistent raiding enhancement shaman. So, I bit the bullet and began running cookie cutter, 0/53/18 spec to supply my guild with Icy Talons.

I have run simcraft from EJ forums and cannot get a consistent result as to which meta gem would be better. On single target fights, it appears that the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21agi/3%crit dam) sims higher( patchwerk style/ single add fights). Chaotic Skyflare Diamond (21crit/3%crit dam) sims higher for Multiple add fights.

I assume this is based off gaining 10str by not having to gem multiple sovereign gems, as well as crit modifier and crit % for frost already being higher and because of increased crit on Rime/Freezing Fog procs on Multi Adds. Ej foums seem to Waffle back and forth as to the proper gem; Any ideas as to the better geming option assuming no socket bonus?

I know Munt already linked that thread for Warriors. Just wanting some DK thoughts on the subject.

Generally, linking specs and "qqing" about DPS is frowned upon so i will not link armory or parses unless asked.

Florun

02-09-2010, 02:11 AM

Sorry, didn't see this post until now, I rarely if ever check the DPS threads, usually no one posts here. You somewhat answered your own question, as you suggested, relentless beats chaotic on single target, whereas chaotic pulls ahead on AoE, especially if you're still running 4 piece t9. It's honestly personal preference, and the gain made either way is miniscule. The simple way to tell what to run is to figure out your EP for agility and crit, then subtract the difference between the two, and see if the socket bonus + the difference outweigh what you would get from gemming an extra bold cardinal ruby instead.

On to what I came here to post, after looking at the logs from the last week of raiding (since the second stealth nerf to bryntroll), I've decided the weapon is awful for DK's, atleast top end DK's, where the proc makes up less of a % of their damage. For this week, the proc averaged between 1% and 2% of my damage on a fight, typically on the low end of the 1%'s. What started out as a good weapon has been nerfed into the ground, and I plan to replace my axe at the next available oppurtunity.

Corrosion

02-10-2010, 03:32 PM

Team Robot Sim
(http://www.askmrrobot.com/WowSimulator.aspx)

Kahories DK Sim (http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t50274-kahories_dk_simulator_1_2_a/)

Zaracks DK Gear Optimizer (http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t71378-zeracks_dk_gear_optimizer_v2_6_8_09_feb_2010_a/)

These are some very helpful tools when your trying to come to a decision on talents/gems/upgrades etc

Im liking team robot a little more as its much more simplistic and quicker to edit properly

munt

02-10-2010, 04:31 PM

dirtybird410

02-10-2010, 06:25 PM

True Story...
Munt once pee'd the bed... from the other side of the room...

regards,
DB

Corrosion

02-11-2010, 09:04 PM

Amroo on EJ stated that from a logical perspective it's most efficient to use BT to move your death rune SS one rotation up. That way you gain one SS every two minutes instead of 2 BS.

So basically your initial rotation becomes
PS-IT-BS-BT/SS-SS
SS-SS-BS-BS

You continue with
PS-IT-SS-SS
SS-SS-BS-BS

until the BT cooldown is up again and switch back to
PS-IT-SS-SS
SS-SS-BS-BT/SS

and then again until the next BT
PS-IT-SS-BS-BS
SS-SS-SS

This exploits the fact that if you use BT when you just used BS (so that one death rune is on CD) and your second blood rune is up, the death rune CD is reset and you blood rune turns into a death rune, such that you have two death runes to use immediately.

As for Bone Shield: If you cast it right at the start of the encounter, most encounters in ICC are either dead before the 5 minutes have passed or there is some time during the encounter where you can't dps anyways and just recast the shield then.

Florun

02-11-2010, 09:09 PM

your initial rotation becomes
PS-IT-BS-BT/SS-SS
SS-SS-BS-BS

You continue with
PS-IT-SS-SS
SS-SS-BS-BS

until the BT cooldown is up again and switch back to
PS-IT-SS-SS
SS-SS-BS-BT/SS

and then again until the next BT
PS-IT-SS-BS-BS
SS-SS-SS

Don't just mindlessly quote EJ without explaining it. I believe that you're linking the BT rotation that trades a SS for two BS's every other BT CD, but I'm not sure.

Corrosion

02-11-2010, 09:39 PM

Basically it gains you One more Scourge Strike Every 2minutes If you feel like DPSing Like a Champ and not just following the standard rotation

dirtybird410

02-13-2010, 03:19 PM

Florun

02-20-2010, 12:11 PM

Question: Why not proc Desolation at start of rotation prior to applying diseases?

I know you lose some damage due to diseases not being up on target but seems like you would be able to get initial Death Rune and pop Blood tap to get the extra SS sooner. Plus wouldn't diseases benefit from the desolation as well, just like the GoDisease specs from 3.2?

Runes would go: (Caps = Active, lowercase = cooldown

BBUUFF = All active
dBuUfF = BS followed by Diseases
Dbuuff = BS, SS
DDuuff = BT followed by SS
bbUuFf =SS, cancel aura macro, SS after UF comes off cd, Runic dump

repeat every 2 mins on BT cooldown

edit:
Cancel Aura Macro may not be necessary, dunno if the timing would work out right so that U and F would be cooling when the BT Death rune comes back allowing for reapplication of Bone Shield with a death rune and not with Unholy, thus allowing for SS to be uninterrupted. This assumes that Bone Shield is off the 1min cooldown and unavoidable aoe effects or "Ouch, fire hot" moments ate bone shield.
Gonna run some math and check this out a little further. All the math was in my head so may be a little fuzzy.

edit 2:
Still messing around with Simcraft to change rotation some to see if this is possible. Pain in the ass. Side note: the above "rotation" may benefit more from not using the second BS and just popping BT to get the deathrune up faster.

Hey sorry for the slow response, been really busy as of late with ICC hardmodes and such (15 straight raiding days, yum?) One thing you seemed to have forgotten to take into account is the reduced damage on your initial blood strike AND melee swing due to Rage of Rivendare (Perhaps, if another DK applies it's another story). Unless I'm mistaken, the only gain here is the initial 6 ticks of FF and 7 ticks of BP, assuming you are juggling diseases, and likely a melee swing will benefit from desolation earlier.

Looking at a parse of mine from last week on Festergut, running a reaping 4piece build, my average disease ticks were ~2000 for FF and 1700 for BP.

So, you're looking at a gain of 5% of 23900 damage from disease ticks, or 1195 damage.

Now, on the flip side, my typical BS averages ~4k damage. I'm not in a raid situation, and to be honest I have no idea how much less damage BS without diseases up or RoR would hit for, but my guess would be it would average ~2.5k damage, at most.

I'm not even going to go into the melee swings, but I'm fairly confident this would be a damage loss. Now, if you're running GoDisease like I do occasionally when I know I'm getting ToTT's, you definitely want to get desolation up before you apply diseases, but that's usually easiest to just do your initial rotation, get gargoyle up, then ERW when you get ToTT'd to reapply diseases and start the rotation again.

Sorry for the late response, and I may have overlooked some things, I'm attempting to do this while raiding ICC25 on my priest.

EDIT : As far as cancel aura macro's go, I always use one. No point in risking the desynch.

dirtybird410

03-06-2010, 02:51 PM

<Also sorry for the delayed response>

Finally figured out what i was putting in wrong in Simcraft and it is indeed a dps loss to the tune of around 100dps to proc desolation first before diseases when in ilvl 251 4pt10 gear.

Numbers varied slightly, with a slight increase (~50dps loss) if you have other dk's applying diseases prior to procing desolation and then beginning standard diseases. Also there was a an extension in RP Dump time due to having to wait for blood/death runes to become active for the next SS.

I would like to thank you for your time, and ask another question if you wouldn't mind.

I know 3.3.3 is still aways out, but with the static change to haste coming in Icy Talons (not improved) will http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jZG0xx0MZfM0Ixcdg0zx0uIqo become viable?

I realize the talents in this link are not based on 3.3.3 but the +str change in endless winter and the increase in Procs for both Necrosis and BCB (from haste) seem interesting.

*edit*
changed talents, must have been drunk when I did this. And to go off what Florun is saying below, Sims I have seen are indeed reaping-"less" specs for better dps.

munt

03-06-2010, 03:16 PM

i have a question ... why havent you apped yet :P

dirtybird410

03-08-2010, 02:35 PM

i have a question ... why havent you apped yet :P

lol, because I am barely pushing ilvl 251 on dps and been having to gear my tank set due to lack of competent tanks.

Florun

03-08-2010, 03:38 PM

dirtybird410

03-24-2010, 03:38 PM

0/17/54 will definitely become viable, though the last time I ran sims for it reaping was a DPS loss from a non reaping build with it. I definitely plan to run a frost subspec with (hopefully) the next bryntroll heroic that drops for the guild, as the haste + black ice will be a pretty nice upgrade to it. I'm a little concerned about threat with it though.

Threat wasn't a huge problem on bosses for me last night. Initial Add pulls were a little rougher, but that mostly because I couldn't find tanks main target with all the tabbing to hold aggro going on. Of course I don't have the gear you have.

Been looking at parses from some of the preliminary Frost specs. (0/53/17 +1) looks pretty decent. Last point going into either BCB/Black Ice/CotG. Seems like with the dimished value of Killing machine as haste goes up makes 4/5 or even 3/5 better.

Anyone found a sim with new talents/buffs in place yet?

Florun

03-24-2010, 05:13 PM

I'm running 0/53/18 tonight, atleast one of my specs, we'll see how this goes. I'll fill this post out later tonight after raid.

Edit: Threat last night was only bad on AoE and gimmick fights (LDW was horrifying)

Florun

03-26-2010, 10:14 AM

So I'm really liking the damage 0/53/18 is offering, I've been pulling really solid numbers with the spec. One issue I'm finding is managing two sets of gear, seeing as frost needs expertise cap, and unholy couldn't care less about it. I'm thinking I might spec 1/53/17 though, just for that extra little bit of threat reduction, as I have to watch my threat on most bosses that aren't simple tank and spanks.

Sinvala

03-26-2010, 02:48 PM

Florun

03-26-2010, 03:19 PM

Have you played around with the frost sub spec yet with the Bryntroll? I am curious how that is holding up versus the 0/53/18? I have always wanted to try the DW frost style but for a lack of viable 1 handers.. i have not been able to, so probably will go UH/frost sub if i get a bryntroll before i get some nice 1 handers.
Just curious if you tried the frost sub with your H Bryntroll and what ya though of it compared to blood sub spec with non Bryntroll weapon.

Going to a frost subspec with Heroic Mr. Bryn T was definitely a DPS increase for me from blood / unholy. Pulled in between 11-12k on tank and spanks, as opposed to high 10ks. As far as doing it without a proc weapon, I'd suggest going with blood / unholy still.

Sinvala

03-27-2010, 07:25 AM

Yeah i had already read that it was not that beneficial unless you had a proc weapon so was going to stay away until i get an H bryntroll. Hopefully get to see one soon. UH/blood seems to cap out significantly lower on dps than many other specs now. So may be time for a change.

Corrosion

03-29-2010, 02:23 AM

So Is frost taking the lead again now? havent really read much on ej lately...

trying to find a reason to care... idk

Florun

03-29-2010, 12:42 PM

So Is frost taking the lead again now? havent really read much on ej lately...

trying to find a reason to care... idk

Frost is definitely the strongest single target in my current gear, and it sims higher than unholy in my BiS sims.

dirtybird410

05-21-2010, 05:43 PM

#showtooltip Unbreakable Armor
/cast Blood Tap
/stopcasting
/cast Unbreakable Armor
/stopcasting
/run if (UnitBuff("player","Unbreakable Armor") and UnitBuff("player","Blood Tap")) then CancelUnitBuff("player","Blood Tap") end

Must press twice:
1) Activate BT
2) Activates UA and Cancels BT aura

Eliminates need for extra macro's tied in with /cancelaura.

Still researching how to tie all three into 1 button click to eliminate extra time needed on double click.

**EDIT**
I'm assuming that this could also be used with Bone Shield in place of Unbreakable Armor

dirtybird410

05-25-2010, 11:05 AM

Interesting Spec that goes into Blood instead of Unholy.

Made popular by http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kalecgos&cn=Starfreak

Starfreak's post from the Cuties Only forums:

1. Re-apply Frost Fever with Howling Blast (only from Rime) or Icy Touch
2. Re-apply Blood Plague (only after it has run out completely, or when it has less than 3 seconds left and you have an unholy/death rune available without an additional frost/death rune available)
3. Obliterate (only when both diseases are applied)
4. Howling Blast (only from Rime)
5. Blood Strike (only with blood runes)
6. Frost Strike

Uses essentially 1 of 2 main talents sets:
--Standard 15/56/0 Spec (http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jfV0VZG0exArczf0cuzAo:kTa)

--hLK Chillbains 15/56/0 (http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jfV0VZG0exNMczfhcuzAo:kTa)

Going to test this spec out in 10mans this week as Chillbains on LK may be worth it since Desecration is a stationary zone.

Sinvala

05-25-2010, 03:31 PM

I was reading about this today and was debating on trying it out sometime. Seems a decent variant of the build and works for some people. I know starfreak does put up some nice numbers.
Anyway, if you try it, letr me know what ya think. On a side note.. you actually get to grab the threat reduction talents!! /cheer

Sin

dirtybird410

05-25-2010, 09:04 PM

On a side note.. you actually get to grab the threat reduction talents!! /cheer

Sin

WTB Tricks of the Trade, pst

Sinvala

05-25-2010, 09:52 PM

WTB Tricks of the Trade, pst

Switching to my rogue so I can hook you up!

Sin

dirtybird410

08-23-2010, 02:44 PM

I'm gonna double post some of this stuff in the HLK strategy Thread but this is basically aimed at DK's.

Doing a little research and Unholy is really the only slow spec necessary for a couple of reasons.

1) Chillblains is over written by frost traps and other debuff style slows, desecration is not.
2) I read (smells a little like BS to me) that Chillblains also affects DR for slows. Not exactly how that works but essentially, as the time ticks on Chillblains, the chance to resist Chains of Ice goes up

So DK's doing Unholy from what i have researched, there is really 1 main spec to roll:
0/17/54 HLK Spec (http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jZG0xx0MZfMbI0cbgbzxbuIqo:LbsmV0)

Looking at the talents there are a couple of things you miss out on and a couple of minor tweaks you can make.

Talents
1) No unholy blight
--Seems sort of a dps loss but if we do our strategy right, our biggest boost for the raid is in AoE damage.

2) Imp UP
--Looking at several specs, this really was confusing to me but lets look at the amount of movement we have in a regular fight.

Shadow Trap
Necrotic Plague to the Adds
Phase Transitions
DEFILE
Chasing Valks
Shadowmourne Room
Running away from Vile Spirits
Collapsing for Valks

--If you have some version of run speed to boots, you could spread those points elsewhere. But even as an engineer, that 15% will help get the defile outta the raid and get you back onto your target faster.

3)Morbidity
--I talked with Florun about this for a bit and it became pretty evident that DnD on the adds was simply too good to pass up. You can drop it a few secs before Valks come down and even if you get picked up you can still put some dps on the adds.
--Personally, I am going to swap out Dark Death Glyph for Death and Decay just to add some extra AoE.

4)Dirge
--Yes you have Disc priests and resto druids capping your RP but with the amount of movement time you have in the fight, the extra RP could mean an extra Death Coil while you are moving into range (Yes, DC even if you are Frost. It's better than doing nothing while you walk back)

Glyphs
1)Dark Death
--This is the one I may try and sub out with Death and Decay or possibly GoDisease.
--With GoDisease, I think the biggest benefit is when you switch back from Valks to LK, but not totally sure what the dps weight difference would be dropping Dark Death or Death and Decay

2)Glyph of the Ghoul
--Standard glyph. Don't be a fucking moron and go without it.

3)Glyph of Icy Touch
--Again, pretty standard. 20% damage boost to something that should have close to 100% up time (maybe not on the same target but over all targets in a single fight)

Sigil
Sigil of Virulence
--Yes, SotHM is better DPS but the uptime with all the add switching and applying of Debuffs can be a nightmare. I am considering trying a switch macro for going from phase 1 to phase 2, but think it would be mostly wasted and I should just stick with Virulence.

Other Unholy Tips
--Drop DnD before the adds come out, even if you get picked up you are doing damage
--if you are picked up, be sure you find your target and still put your pet on it
--AMS will give you both Full RP and Help Healers out when used with Infest. I've timed it decently so you can use it for every other AMS in Phase 1, 1 time during phase 1/2 transition for Pain and Suffering and then for the infest as we come back in for phase 2.

Questions, comments, flames?

Florun

08-30-2010, 09:28 AM

Alright, time for a little update to the post based on my experiences last night on Florun.

First things first, AMS is incredible for soaking infests / pain and suffering / vile spirits / you name it. Looking at the logs on the kill attempt I gained about 700-1000 more RP than both of you with AMS, use it more!

The second and most glaring issue was the difference in damage on raging spirits between myself and you two. I did 600kish more than both of you on Raging Spirits, which is something that really shouldn't be happening, I realize you both were probably a tad more careful than myself (I'm kind of reckless with threat, if you haven't noticed), but in the case that isn't the issue, I'll point out what I do for them. When they spawn, wait for the taunt or growl debuff, then IT / PS and go to town, I tend to swap off them at 20% to the next add, and use rime procs for HB, as well as possibly drop a DnD, especially if unholy. The main thing here is you have to be fast to get on a target, I think that was likely the biggest issue. Pretty much the whole night I was getting first debuffs on a target out of anyone in the raid, the goal should be to decrease that swap time.

Valk damage looked fine, I was ahead, but I also can't recall if I got picked up final pull ( I believe I did once, but I believe you two both did as well), you can't really tell much from one valk, it's really just a test of how quick you swap.

P3, AMS, AMS, AMS. As frost I probably should have swapped to unholy presence, it didn't occur to me at the time, but with all the movement, I was lagging behind frequently.

Also, I might be the worst person about using Unbreakable Armor ever after not playing for a few months, but I only used it once less than you nearwin, you might want to look into a mod to remind you when it's up, it's nasty.

Oh, we also sucked cock at keeping HoW up, thought we should know.

Oh, and dirty, some of those defiles were sketch, make sure you have your escape route planned before the defile, and max range on the valks hit box, it's a huge hit box apparently.

Overall it was a pretty good night for the DK's, I liked what I saw, just some helpful stuff (maybe).

Syrio

08-30-2010, 10:03 AM

Triple DK Heroic LK? Now that's an all star comp!

Florun

08-30-2010, 10:17 AM

Triple DPS DK, Rshaman, Rdruid. Pretty sure that's the worst comp to ever do the fight

munt

08-30-2010, 12:03 PM

Having a munt in your comp is never a bad comp

dirtybird410

08-30-2010, 12:08 PM

Having a munt in your comp is never a bad comp

http://dsfv.schnuerpel.eu/statement/yeah-well-that-is-just-like-your-opinion-man.jpg

munt

08-30-2010, 12:16 PM

Triple DPS DK, Rshaman, Rdruid. Pretty sure that's the worst comp to ever do the fight

No sunder was a good choice imo.