Warrior

[MADOGRE]

Just so we have the thread.

[meer]

since nobody did anything i'll copy and paste something noteworthy from mmo:

I'm running with duel zerker and my DPS is better than with a static chant on my OH. Some maths:

Im seeing a 60% ish uptime as well, but lets drop it to 50% for a little buffer. OH won't proc as often but proc it does with an up time of 35%, so say 30% for some buffer again. Lets also say 15k armor for a talented AP increase of 83.

A proc at the wrong time on your MH (worst case scenarios here) sees your armor at (15k/100*5) 14250 resulting in a total of 13 AP (12.5) lost from talents, whilst netting a gain of 387. With an up time of roughly 50% this means it is the equivalent of a 193.5 static AP enchant on your MH.

A proc at the wrong time on your OH sees your armor at 15k resulting in 13 AP (12.5) again lost from talents whilst netting the same gain of 387 AP. A 30% up time means it is the equivalent of a 116.1 AP chant on your OH. This is still superior to Massacre, even in the worst case scenario with additional buffers.

Both of these together will take your armor down to 13500 meaning a loss of 25 AP with a net gain of 775 AP. The total proc rate for both weapons is 40% meaning over a fight you will gain the equivalent of two 155 AP chants on both of your weapons.

This is all worst case scenario. From what I see, the proc is far more often and is a massive increase to your DPS. I hope this has shown you that 2x beserking is definitely superior to berserking MH and Massacre OH.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=36810.0

TLDR:

With 50% proc on mh and 30% proc on oh. (very generous)
1 zerk enchant proc loses ~12 AP.
zerk mh 190 AP static
zerk oh 115 AP static

IF both proc at bad time for 30sec check(worst case scenario) then:
mh 155ap
oh 155ap

[meer]

Vs 83 Boss


Titan Grip Spec Warrior
Specials: 8%
White: 28.6%
Draenei = 1%
Precision = 3%



Arms Spec:
Special = 8%
White =8%
Draenei = 1%





updated and deleted some confusing replys

[Aurelius]

Warrior DPS furyfest:

Priority on abilities: WW > BT > Slam > HS, - warrior DPS is extremely RNG based, if you crit with both weapons you end up with 70-100 rage and have room for more heroic strikes. Potentially heroic strikes can cost 27 rage with a slam proc, so use sparingly if needed. You always want to have rage for the next whirlwind cooldown, always. Bloodthirst is slightly less important, but it's good to have 55 rage total between cooldowns right before WW comes up so you can bloodthirst right afterwards.

Strength rapes, get it.

Warriors require a lot of synergy in raids to do good dps, windfury, 10% ap buff from marksman hunter or Unleashed Rage from some idiot named Protico. Mangle is pretty good, though it's not quite as good as it was since the deep wounds nerf. It's still about 200 DPS or so.

Below 20% hp mob/boss: I generally have been disliking spam execute more and more, I think whirlwind at this point with a Betrayer / some 200+ dps offhand does more damage potentially than any execute that's not above 50-60 rage. This includes the glyph of execute. I go by a general rule of don't use execute unless you crit with at least one weapon, which will put you at / a bit above 50 rage. I still use the execute glyph but I'm thinking of going cleave glyph so I may change my mind and up the rule to 60+ rage.

Glyphs - Major - Whirlwind, Heroic Strike, Cleave/Execute
Minor - Bloodrage, Battle Shout, I use victory rush for a 3rd slot but nothing is very good for the 3rd slot minor.

Other notes: Rending is pretty good if you're able to charge the boss at first and switch to zerker. Slow weapons are always better, it's unfortunate most weapons are 3.4 speed now. Strength rapes, saying that again, get it.

also protico sucks

[meer]

The new arms is not as bad for moving targets cause most of the dmg is just instants and slam is treated like heroic strike, not like tbc where it was:
auto slam specal, auto slam special, auto slam speical

now its priority based:
keep rend up, keep bladestorm on cd(use when trinket procs), keep ms on cd. use the 2 procs whenever, and use slam when nothing is available etc.

The only thing i hate is that it blows for trash or multi mobs when bladestorm/strikes is not up. They should reduce the cooldown on strikes to like 15 seconds or something. It feels like tbc enhance shaman when it comes to multi mob dps. Just awful.

Gemming nothing but ARP atm I cap out at about 4.5-5k ish dps depending on the fight (with my offspec crap gear). Negative armor was just rediculous, 13kMS crits, 34k Exec crits. It's like the old Curse of Shadows, negative resitance caused shadowbolts to crit for stupid amounts before they changed it. Atm ARP is exponential unlike any other stat in the game. At 1600ARP(with procs) your damage is 3x more. Even after the change ARP is still the best, just have to find the ideal cap before diminishing returns, so far I think EJ kids found out its around 650-700ish (ppl use to reach 1k+). Anyway I'll be using it for trauma, blood frenzy and imp demo shout just like Tbc arms. Lower in damage over all but brings quality debuffs.


PS Another thing they need to look at is the threat, my god arms generates so much threat right now. Most specs/classes have threat reduction talents built in their spec but Arms does' not. That last 2 drake we did my omen was screaming the whole fight.

PPS
yea ogre if you find yourself not using battle/commanding, and dont use it in 10mans or w/e then spec into imp demo. It shaves off like 1500-2000 dmg from bosses. If you find yourself forgetting to use it let me know I have a nice setup with Power Auras which is obnoxious but I made it that way so I never forget.

[Aurelius]

try to time it so rend is on the boss/mob and a taste for blood proc was just used, bladestorm lasts 6 seconds and taste for blood will only come up every 6 seconds. So when you come out of bladestorm you're able to use the proc and another one immediately comes up, and you can continue the rotation. Nothing you can do about wasted SD procs really, though.

I would still consider getting a bit more armor pen, but 40% + hearty rhino would do fairly well.

[meer]

You can get addon Power Auras and have it pop up the trinket icon anywhere you choose on the screen when it procs, it makes using bladestorm a little easier. Also for fights where you do nothing but stand still and dps like General Vezax, staring at action bars can help with Inline Auras installed.

the thing is, grim toll isn't as huge as it once was(having toll and mj proc at same time etc). And gearing the rest of your stuff based on a proc like that would yield less dps in a long fight like general hard mode. You are right, when it procs every extra arp you already have will make it that much worse post arp nerf. You can do this yourself or use a spreadsheet but test it over a 3, 5 or 10 min fight, which is usually how long most hard modes end up being. Based on obvious information I am going to say having more passive arp like what Mario said above would be better overall (650-700 is what ej nerds came up with after nerf as ideal passive arp)

The reason he prolly said weapon mastery over imp exec is cause you might have different gear available which might yield higher dps as arms.

I would try to get the mj trinket off thorim 10man to replace grim toll asap. (careful rogs and hunters might emofest!)

[Commitment]

try to time it so rend is on the boss/mob and a taste for blood proc was just used, bladestorm lasts 6 seconds and taste for blood will only come up every 6 seconds. So when you come out of bladestorm you're able to use the proc and another one immediately comes up, and you can continue the rotation.

Hmm. So would this be more effective vs say, use when grim toll procs? As Bladestorm is every 1 second, I always keep thinking it'll be better to use when it hits harder. And I cant really make trinket proc when i want ><

So passive 650-700 is what I aim for, hmm. Landsoul's spreadsheet conflicts with it. If i do get 650-700 passive armor pen, though, i'll just drop Grim Toll and grab Wrathstone or something =P Grim toll is good, but not critical.

@ Madogre.
I personally like

#showtooltip Bladestorm
/cast Heroic Strike
/cast Bladestorm

Which heroic strikes before I bladestorm to dust off extra rage, and

#showtooltip Shattering Throw
/cast Shattering Throw

with a different Icon. Wtf was Blizz thinking, to make Heroic throw and Shattering throw the same icon? confuses me without it.

as for Fury dps, your macro was basically it. Our rotation as fury is not complicated in my opinion, and doesn't require much more thought than mindless button smashing. And don't kick yourself- pummel duty on General sucks and kills dps.

[Bobbonatale]

sorry i was just bored b/c the server is down and wanted to chime in on a few things mentioned. I wouldnt add the heroic strike prior to bladestorm macro if ur trying to maximize ur uptime with grim toll proc b/c ud have to time it with ur next swing or u are talking a swing time for hs and could potentially ruin u if ur not over the rage requirements for bs + hs. I personally dont use bs on single targets b/c it does less dam period (but i dont have gt or runestone). I dont have best in slots but as i found keeping the 2/5 valorous works for the 10% increase slam dam which i spam due to lack of any real rage restrictions (shoulders are are top3 bis and legs have 84crit and exp ideal if ur not axe spec). This works nice with some hs in crazy rage fights while allowing me to keep ms and overpower on cd. On trash fights i find i am constantly up even without bs because slam spamming and dw does most of my dam on fights up to 4 targets (2 targets ideal with sweeping strikes) without bs. Arms is horrible reliant on rng and even worse with sword spec (obv not first choice) Slam spamming becomes less attractive when u lose the 2 set valorous bonus but i havent found the conq desirable at all for arms. Stacked with hit and exp lack of crit makes it crap for us esp if u have the hit trink. Arp is only on chest and helm and until u get other hard mode items its simply not worth it and leather is still attractive (muwah)

[Fortunamax]

Helps me to use PowerAuras addon for my Slam! Bloodsurge talent proc, besides that its pretty simple to dps as fury most of the time.

[MADOGRE]

Warrior (Forums / Talent Calculator)
Fury / Arms tanking in 5-man
We expect Prot to still be the talent tree of choice for raiding and the more challenging heroic dungeons since the talents will still probably make them a safer tank overall.

However, making it easier for an Arms or Fury warrior (or Ret paladin, cat druid or dps-focused DK) to step in and tank accomplishes two good things:

1) It makes it easier to get tanks for Dungeon Finder since some dps specs may be willing to slap on the shield (or change forms, etc.) for a faster queue. Based on the current use we are expecting players to use Dungeon Finder a lot in Cataclysm, even in the level up experience.

2) It allows the tanking classes to more fully embrace the fact that they are designed as a hybrid class and they have options available if they are willing to step in and do the tanking.

We're sensitive to Prot warriors not wanting to lose their jobs to non-tanks, but we don't really think that will happen. Right now the main thing keeping Arms warriors from tanking 5-player dungeons is having to get a complete second set of gear where they have to be crit immune. Getting a shield by itself shouldn't be nearly as big of a burden.

[Ghanos]

Trying to keep the eat shit Isarac stuff to one thread. There was some good warrior discussion, though, that I wanted to continue here.

I think I do more theorycrafting that just about anyone in the guild.

With Ogre's rig, I don't see why we can't have 1.95 Mario equivalents in the runs.

Agility ring I think has been settled.

Here's the bug that I was talking about:

This is intended. There is a spreadsheet setting for "Use HS + 0 Miss bug" to factor in the bug which prevents offhand misses while Heroic Strike is queued, which makes any hit rating over the hit cap useless.

They likely won't bother spending any time to fix this bug since On Next Swing attacks are going away in Cataclysm, so I would gear around this bug for now.

Also, what are you guys doing with cancelaura on the Shadowmourne procs?

I'd have to look-up the situations, but there are times when canceling is a DPS increase.

Ogre since you logged out in your PvE spec/gear. I ran the spreadsheet on your toon.

Your gloves and cape are pretty bad. Switching to Cat Burglar's is a 72 DPS increase. Switching to Agi badge cloak is a whopping 227 DPS increase. OF course, you'll need to swap out some str gems for exp.

Here are your current stat weighting. You'll be surprised, but Crit right now is actually your best stat:

STR 1.0000
2 AP 0.7595
AGI 0.9424
Crit 1.1392
Hit 0.0403
Haste 0.8713
ArP 0.0000
ExP 0.0000

This explains why the Agi ring is better. Agi is almost as good as strength for you. I don't think you guys are Rending, so without Rend Crit gets even better at about 15% better than Str right now.

Of course, gear changes like this are a differential equation, so you pretty much have to recalculate after each change, since changes affect the value of future changes.

[Ghanos]

Since I couldn't answer my own question about Chaos Bane, I looked up the discussion in the warriors thread on EJ and ran some WoL queries.

Essentially, it looks like canceling for fury might be slightly better when able to cleave 3 targets. I know that Landsoul says it's not, but I think his math is wrong. He's using 2400 as the proc, when the logs say 2900. I'm guess he's not counting the ~500 demonic pact buff?

I think with a two target cleave, it's a loss, so I can't see an easy way to accomplish the slight increase.

That said, however, it looks perhaps like Rasputin should be canceling at all times. The discussion on EJ is for the typical UH SM wielder, which has a high scaling to Str. For a DK tank, though, there's much less DPS scaling from Str I would think.

To do the actual math, I'd need a Str scale factor for Rasputin. Simcraft doesn't seem to work on Blood DK.

[MADOGRE]

I really have not looked into things that much, normally when a need raid zone comes out, I check out EJ see what they say is BIS and kinda leave it at that.
Allot of times things are not in game, or have never been data mined to see that stats, or blizz makes changes, wich I end up not paying much attention to, thus I end up were I am now 10% or so crit behind Mario.
Thanks for the update, I will fix some of this ASAP.

[Ghanos]

I re-ran with the new offhand. Crit is still slightly better than Str, but you're under hit cap.

As it turns out, Wodin's is a pretty big 200+ DPS upgrade and it has hit. Aren't there a bunch of those lying around in the guild bank?

I recommend downloading the spreadsheet. It's really easy to use, once someone explains a few tricks.